Why do the English have the richest national literature?

[Manifest Destiny]

"I had always thought of English literature as the richest in the world; the discovery now of a secret chamber (sc. Old English literature) at the very threshold of that literature came to me as an additional gift."
- Jorge Luis Borges, 'An Autobiographical Essay', The Aleph & Other Stories

Below is a list of the greatest writers of all time grouped by language:

SPANISH:

Cervantes, Lope de Vega, Quevedo, Calderon, Perez Galdos, Machado, Jimenez, Garcia Lorca

PORTUGUESE:

Assis, Queiros, Pessoa, Amado, Saramago

ITALIAN (13):

Dante, Petrarca, Boccaccio, Ariosto, Goldoni, Leopardi, Pascoli, Svevo, Pirandello, Gadda, Montale, Zanzotto, Calvino

FRENCH (17):

Chretien, Villon, Rabelais, Moliere, Voltaire, Stendhal, Balzac, Hugo, Baudelaire, Flaubert, Mallarme, Rimbaud, Proust, Valery, Cocteau, Celine, Sartre, Beckett

GERMAN (20):

Goethe, Schiller, Holderlin, Kleist, Novalis, Heine, Hoffmann, Buchner, Schnitzler, Wedekind, Rilke, Mann
Hesse, Musil, Kafka, Brecht, Canetti, Durrenmatt, Bernhard, Sebald

ENGLISH (51):

Chaucer, Spenser, Marlowe, Shakespeare, Donne, Milton
Defoe, Swift, Johnson, Fielding, Blake, Wordsworth, Scott, Dickens, Byron, Carlyle, Pope, Shelley, Bronte, G. Eliot, Kipling, Hardy, Hopkins, Shaw, Conrad, Yeats, Forster, Keats, Joyce, Woolf, Huxley, Greene, Auden, Goldman, Burgess, Pinter, Melville, James, Stevens, Pound, T.S. Eliot, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Nabokov, Barth, Pynchon, Morrison, White, Walcott, Soyinka

RUSSIAN (15):

Pushkin, Gogol, Turgenev, Dostoevskij, Tolstoj, Cechov, Gorkij, Blok, Achmatova, Pasternak, Mandelstam, Bulgakov, Majakovskij, Evtusenko, Brodskij

[Aistulf]

LEGEND BLUE = Jewish
PURPLE = Jewish?
RED = non-English (assimilated/partially English)
GREEN = non-English?
ENGLISH (51):

Chaucer, Spenser, Marlowe, Shakespeare, Donne, Milton
Defoe, Swift, Johnson, Fielding, Blake, Wordsworth, Scott, Dickens, Byron, Carlyle, Pope, Shelley, Bronte, G. Eliot, Kipling, Hardy, Hopkins, Shaw, Conrad, Yeats, Forster, Keats, Joyce, Woolf, Huxley, Greene, Auden, Goldman, Burgess, Pinter, Melville, James, Stevens, Pound, T.S. Eliot, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Nabokov, Barth, Pynchon, Morrison, White, Walcott, Soyinka
As for the highlighted examples, are they [truly] “English”? Since this is an (ethno-)racialist forum, afterall, and we'd therefore consider national to be more than merely holding citizenship...

[Hunter Wallace]

Wasn't this proven by Charles Murray in Human Accomplishment a few years ago?

[WFHermans]

I always considered Pynchon to be a jew because of his holowhining, but I never checked.

I do think however that more masterpieces are written in the english language than in any other, and the simplest explanation is that english is the most widely known European language.

I have never heard of Goldman, Stevens, Barth, Morrison, White, Walcott, or Soyinka. I assume you don't mean Bill White.;)

[Manifest Destiny]

LEGEND BLUE = Jewish
PURPLE = Jewish?
RED = non-English (assimilated/partially English)
GREEN = non-English?

As for the highlighted examples, are they [truly] “English”? Since this is an (ethno-)racialist forum, afterall, and we'd therefore consider national to be more than merely holding citizenship...I meant 'English' as in English-speaking. Only a few of the people listed are not ethnically British, though.

[Manifest Destiny]

Also, your assertion that George Eliot, Greene, T.S. Eliot, Faulkner, and White are Jewish is absurd. For one thing, both George Eliot and T.S. Eliot have been criticised for antisemitism.

George Eliot
http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/bailey/geliot.jpg

T.S. Eliot
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/fass/projects/stylistics/graphics/author_images/ts%20eliot.jpg

[Aistulf]

I wasn't sure, and judging by the name[s].


I meant 'English' as in English-speaking. Only a few of the people listed are not ethnically British, though.
That's what counts to be [I]English?

[Manifest Destiny]

I thought this would have been too obvious to mention, but apparently not.

1. 'English' can mean (i) people of Anglo-Saxon ancestry; (ii) people whose first language is English and are assimilated into an English-derived culture (Englishmen, Scotsmen, Irishmen, Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc.); or (iii) the English language itself. To be 'English' in the first sense is not a question of citizenship but of ancestry.

2. English literature in the sense in which I use the term is literature written in the English langauge. Thomas Carlyle, though a Scotsman, wrote English literature. Shaw, though an Irishman, wrote English literature. Melville, though an American of Hungarian descent, wrote English literature.

3. Finally, even if we exclude non-British writers, the same result is arrived at: English-langauge literature is richer than the national literatures of all contemporary European nations.

[John Ryder]

3. Finally, even if we exclude non-British writers, the same result is arrived at: English-langauge literature is richer than the national literatures of all contemporary European nations.

The Germans would completely disagree with you.

[Manifest Destiny]

The Germans would completely disagree with you.I believe the OP refutes that opinion. Make whatever revisions you think necessary - exclude Kafta from the German category, Nabokov and a few other non-British writers from the English category, etc. - and we arrive at roughly the same result.

[WFHermans]

English-language literature is richer than the national literatures of all contemporary European nations combined? Or richer than the second-richest?

[IlluSionS667]

The English do NOT have the richest national literature. The only reason why there are more names in the list for English, is because native English speakers tend to know more English writers than other writers. If you were to ask a German, he would be able to give far more German names than English names.

Who of you has ever heard of Guido Gezelle or Hendrik Conscience? Both are considered to be among the most important Flemish writers, but I doubt they're known outside of Dutch-speaking areas.

I'd also like to point out that I didn't even see Jacob Ludwig Karl Grimm and Wilhelm Karl Grimm among the German entries. Even though their fairy tales were only ancient fairy tales that were orally told throughout Germany which they collected and put down in writing, their fairy tales have become world famous and have been told as bedtime stories to generations or little children. I don't think any nation is a rich of fairy tales as the German nation used to be, which is very telling of the Germans as a people.

[Manifest Destiny]

The English do NOT have the richest national literature.Refer to OP.

The only reason why there are more names in the list for English, is because native English speakers tend to know more English writers than other writers. If you were to ask a German, he would be able to give far more German names than English names.That is an ad hominem argument. Do you think I just arbitrarily conjured up all the names from my own mind and memory? I probably could have done that, and arrived at the same result, but foreseeing the problem you have spoken of, I collected all the names from experts within each field of study (Spanish literature, English literature, German literature, etc.).

By the way, you are an anti-English, anti-American extremist. I've read with disgust your ludicrous anti-English conspiracy theories. And you suggest I am biased?

Who of you has ever heard of Guido Gezelle or Hendrik Conscience? Both are considered to be among the most important Flemish writers, but I doubt they're known outside of Dutch-speaking areas.I am confining myself, of course, to the major languages of the world. Minor languages like Flemish, which is only spoken by five to six million people, are excluded.

I'd also like to point out that I didn't even see Jacob Ludwig Karl Grimm and Wilhelm Karl Grimm among the German entries.Deservedly so.

I don't think any nation is a rich of fairy tales as the German nation used to be, which is very telling of the Germans as a people.Actually, many of the tales in the Grimm stories are of French, Italian, and other non-German origins. But many of them are also native to Germany (or at least, we cannot find any non-German precursors to them; which is not the case with such tales as Cinderella, of French origin).

[WFHermans]

Certainly the limited knowledge of other languages is an extremely important factor here. Who knows, Estonian literature may be the richest in the world and it's just waiting to be translated.

But especially in the 19th century the knowledge of spanish, italian, german and french was so widely spread in the anglosaxon world that a masterpiece would have been detected and translated.into english.

When I was a child and I couldn't read anything except dutch, almost all the books I read as "masterpieces ed-edited and translated for children" were english. I recall the names of Swift, Defoe, and Poe. This is anecdotal evidence, of course, but I think most of the people outside of the english-speaking world will have had the same experience.

[IlluSionS667]

That is an ad hominem argument. Do you think I just arbitrarily conjured up all the names from my own mind and memory? I probably could have done that, and arrived at the same result, but foreseeing the problem you have spoken of, I collected all the names from experts within each field of study (Spanish literature, English literature, German literature, etc.).

It's simply impossible to compare the national literature of various countries and pick the richest one, because every nation has literally thousands of authors of which at least a few dozen must be worth reading.

By the way, you are an anti-English, anti-American extremist. I've read with disgust your ludicrous anti-English conspiracy theories. And you suggest I am biased?

I do not have anything against Anglo-Saxon people, although I prefer Irish and Scots over Englishmen and Americans. Especially Americans tend to have no clue of the world beyond the distorted image their media gives them, which tends to bother me a lot. No offense...

I do, however, have a serious problem with Anglo-Saxon imperialism. I'm not sure what "ludicrous anti-English conspiracy theories" you're talking about, but I can assure you that not a single of my statements is based on anything but years of research.

I am confining myself, of course, to the major languages of the world. Minor languages like Flemish, which is only spoken by five to six million people, are excluded.

Deservedly so.

Technically, Flemish isn't a language but a variant of the Dutch language. Flemish is to the language spoken in Holland what British English is to American English : pretty much the same language, but with different accents and a bunch of different words.

Besides that, it's only logical that a language that's used a lot has a richer national literature, but I wouldn't know how to compare eg. French, German and English literature with one another and make the kind of assumption you made in the OP.

Actually, many of the tales in the Grimm stories are of French, Italian, and other non-German origins.

Do you have anything to back that up?

But many of them are also native to Germany (or at least, we cannot find any non-German precursors to them; which is not the case with such tales as Cinderella, of French origin).

According to Wikipedia, the orriginal Cinderella story is actually of Greco-Roman origin ;)

[IlluSionS667]

Certainly the limited knowledge of other languages is an extremely important factor here. Who knows, Estonian literature may be the richest in the world and it's just waiting to be translated.

Exactly my point.

But especially in the 19th century the knowledge of spanish, italian, german and french was so widely spread in the anglosaxon world that a masterpiece would have been detected and translated.into english.

Translating a work into other languages is often a matter of popularity and economics rather than quality ;)

When I was a child and I couldn't read anything except dutch, almost all the books I read as "masterpieces ed-edited and translated for children" were english. I recall the names of Swift, Defoe, and Poe. This is anecdotal evidence, of course, but I think most of the people outside of the english-speaking world will have had the same experience.

Most films and music was and still is in the English language, but that's solely because of American imperialism. I don't remember and "masterpieces ed-edited and translated for children" from when I was a child, though. When I was a child, popular children's books were mostly books from Dutch authors like Annie MG Schmidt. I only read Belgian comics and non-fiction books at that age, though. I've never really had any significant interest for reading novels.

[John Ryder]

I am confining myself, of course, to the major languages of the world. Minor languages like Flemish, which is only spoken by five to six million people, are excluded.

Deservedly so.

Dutch is a "minor language" spoken by 23 million, not 5 to 6 million. The exclusion of "minor languages" is uncalled for.

You could consider English a "minor language" since it is not the native language of most Europeans...

[Manifest Destiny]

Dutch is a "minor language" spoken by 23 million, not 5 to 6 million. The exclusion of "minor languages" is uncalled for.

You could consider English a "minor language" since it is not the native language of most Europeans...No. What would the world like be without the English language? In what ways would it be different? How has English literature influenced other national literatures? English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Russian, Greek, and Latin have exercised an enourmous influence on the world, in literature as well as other departments of human life and culture, and it is for this reason that I consider them to be major languages. Other langauges have been influential, but their influence has not extended as far as that of the above mentioned languages. My method of determining the value of English, French, German, Spanish, etc., literature is to tally up the number of masterworks produced in those languages, that are recognised as the greatest such works by experts in the fields of English literature, French literature, German literature, Spanish literature, etc., and compare the results. This method eliminates the possibility of my limited knowledge of other national literatures skewing the results in favour of English literature. The result, however, is as I had predicted: The United Kingdom is ahead of the rest of the world in literature. It is rivalled by ancient Greek alone, though I confined myself to living languages.

[Therion]

If there are more English-speaking people, it stands to reason that more literature is written in that language. However, I do not wish to reduce this to mere quantity: English literature was already qualitatively superior, even to most of that which came after it, in the 16th century.

[Andy Wooster]

I always considered Pynchon to be a jew because of his holowhining, but I never checked.



I believe Pynchon is 100% Anglo-Saxon. His ancestors on his father's side immigrated to the US with the Winthrop Fleet in 1630. It's debatable whether he belongs on any list of authors of great literature, however.

[Bardamu]

It is all a numbers game. White people give birth, or used to, to a relative large proportion of creative geniuses. Those English literary geniuses that Ix listed come from a period when the English were experiencing a birthrate explosion. The other white countries were also experiencing large demographic increase and they too had at that time a large proportion of creative literary geniuses, as we would today were we to generate a population explosion of say average families of 5,6, and 7 children.

[IlluSionS667]

It still remains a matter of taste and exposure.

[Roland]

What about Ernst Junger and Thomas Mann in Germany? I believe Junger won nearly every literary prize existent in Germany throughout his lifetime, and Mann was himself a Nobel laureate.

Which works are the most valuable for you for each language, Utopian?