Should womenfolk be excluded?

[Manifest Destiny]

Thomas777 brought this up in another thread. What is the official policy?

[Metal Gear]

Women should be held to strict standards.

Only excellent women should be accepted. That would exclude most of the current women on the phøra.

[Manifest Destiny]

Women should be excluded, as a general rule. All they do is spam, and distract weak-minded men from more elevated discussions. I am willing to take exception to leopoldbloom and Sarah.

[Beria]

The policy as it stands now is women in general are excluded; exceptional cases will be determined as they arise depending on the circumstances of the individual poster.

[Metal Gear]

I won't hate people for being a women...I'll hate them for acting like one...

[Beria]

Empirical evidence suggests they are inferior to men; this is undeniable. Only artificial and unjustified ideals of female equality that permeate liberal society attempt to refute this.

[Manifest Destiny]

It is not solely the inferiority of women that justifies their exclusion at the Firezone, though their inferiority is incontestable. It is the fact that weak-minded men are distracted by their presence, which diverts people's attention from more elevated discussions.

[Metal Gear]

That isn't the fault of the women, unless the women is being openly flirtatious.

I'd ban flirtation. No Starr/Muscle Power style bullshit.

[Manifest Destiny]

That isn't the fault of the women, unless the women is being openly flirtatious.It doesn't matter if it is the fault of women. Without women, it simply doesn't occur. That is sufficient ground to exclude all women from the Firezone.

[Metal Gear]

That would be blaming the symptom rather than the cause, the cause would be lack of dicipline within the male poster. I am not adovcating mass importation of women though.

[Hunter Wallace]

The interesting ones should be allowed to stay.

I actually had sex with two of them (Vanessa and Carrigan, or 'sugartits' and 'riddlemethis') during my tenure as Fuhrer of The phøra. Needless to say, of all the memories I have of the old phøra, those are without a doubt the most vivid.

That phase of my life is over now (18-25), but many of you are now the age that I was back then. You never know who you will meet online. One of you might find a girlfriend or a future wife. It has happened before. :)

[Metal Gear]

If the situation did arise where a well-behaved female poster, who was modest, was being flirted with by a weak-minded male, the proper move would be to ban the male.

[Manifest Destiny]

That would be blaming . . .We don't need to know the precise cause of the problem when such a practical solution exists. If women are excluded, flirtatious behaviour between the sexes (among other undesirable behaviours) does not occur. That's all we need to know.

the cause would be lack of dicipline within the male poster.Correct. But it is also desirable to create conditions under which punishable behaviour is impossible or unlikely to occur. An environment with virtually no women would solve the problem, even if it does not address the root cause.

[Metal Gear]

If the man is weak-minded, its a character flaw that goes deeper than just interaction with the opposite sex, and it can't be swept under the rug.

[Manifest Destiny]

Besides, a female presence is problematic in itself, regardless of the level of discpline of the male posters. Women never say anything insightful.

[Daniel Shays]

Decent women pretend to be men online.

[Metal Gear]

Just ban behaviors that are typically annoying within women...that will clear out the trash, and leave remaining only an elite group of women. I'm all for throwing out the bathwater, I just don't want to throw out the baby with it.

[Manifest Destiny]

If the man is weak-minded,99% of men are weak-minded, including the best contributors. It is easier to exclude women than to correct men.

its a character flaw that goes deeper than just interaction with the opposite sex, and it can't be swept under the rug.It doesn't matter what the root cause is, if a known solution exists. That solution is exclusion of women.

[funderbunked]

Besides, a female presence is problematic in itself, regardless of the level of discpline of the male posters. Women never say anything insightful.

True.

But there is the HeLL Forum: Where they can post nekkid pics of themselves, and then we can evaluate their potential entry (pun intended).

[Metal Gear]

The best solutions always factor in the cause...quick fixes don't!

[Manifest Destiny]

Just ban behaviors that are typically annoying within women...That is like saying: Don't allow child molesters into my house; just the ones that engage in child molestation within my house.

[Metal Gear]

That's a bad analogy because ALL women don't act that way, just as a group, MORE women do.

Whereas ALL child molesters, by definition, molest children, or they would not be a child molester.

[Manifest Destiny]

The best solutions always factor in the cause...But the cause is in this case manifold. One part of the cause is the weakness of men. The other part of the weakness of women. Remove either of these causes, and the problem is corrected. Now, it is much easier to remove women than to correct men.

[Manifest Destiny]

That's a bad analogy because ALL women don't act that way, just as a group, MORE women do.Then let me revise the analogy:

"Don't allow paedophiles into my house; just the ones that engage in paedophilia within my house. Ban undesired behaviour, not groups of people."

That's a bad analogy because ALL women don't act that way, just as a group, MORE women do.99% of women are undesirables.

[Metal Gear]

But the cause is in this case manifold. One part of the cause is the weakness of men.

That I agree with, I'm not talking about keeping weak women, I'm only talking about keeping the elite ones. Flirtatious women and flirtatious men should both be booted.

[Manifest Destiny]

That I agree with, I'm not talking about keeping weak women, I'm only talking about keeping the elite ones. Flirtatious women and flirtatious men should both be booted.Once again, the problem is not just flirtatious behaviour - even if that didn't exist, the presence of women would still be problemic, as they are incapable of elevated discussion.

[Metal Gear]

Beileve it or not, the defintion of a women is not a "weak, stupid, person." So the analogy still isn't valid. The definition of a women is someone with female body parts and anthropology, and the other things associated with women aren't part of the defintion, they are only true a certain percentage, often a high percentage, but still a percentage, of the time.

You can say the same thing about blacks. As a whole, blacks are stupid. But the definition of a black person has nothing to do with IQ, and surely there are a minority of blacks who ARE NOT stupid. On a non-racist high brow forum, smart blacks should be accepted, the more common stupid ones rejected. On a non-sexist high-brow forum, smart women should be accepted, the more common stupid ones should be rejected. Because the phøra/firezone has never been expolicitly racialist or "sexualist," I do not see the logic of excluding QUALIFIED people, the unqualified should be excluded simply because they aren't qualified, which will exclude a good amount of women.

[Manifest Destiny]

Beileve it or not, the defintion of a women is not a "weak, stupid, person."I am not dealing with definitions, but the proclivities of certain classes of people. The analogy is entirely valid. Women tend to be blabber mindlessly. Paedophiles have a tendency to commit child molestation. Not all women are weak-minded, of course; nor do all paedophiles act upon their urges. But just as I wouldn't allow a known paedophile into my house because of the disagreeable tendencies of his type, so I wouldn't allow a woman into into an elevated discussion forum because of the disagreeable tendencies of her type.

[Metal Gear]

Women tend to babble, some do, others do not. If one stops babling, one remains a women.

On the other hand, if one stops the behaviors of touching children, one does not remain a pedophile. The whole criteria of membership into that group is based on the criteria of performing the behavior, whereas the criteria for being a women is independent of the behaviors that too many of them possess. Many men possess equally annoying behaviors, and they should be dealt with too. The few women who don't possess those behaviors should be treated differently than those which do.

I believe I've made my point solidly, so I'm done with this thead.

[Manifest Destiny]

Women tend to babble, some do, others do not.The majority do.

On the other hand, if one stops the behaviors of touching children, does not remain a pedophile. The whole criteria of membership into that group is based on the criteria of performing the behavior, . . .Incorrect. The textbook definition of a paedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children, not necessarily someone who engages in paedophilic behaviour. There are thousands of people, classified as paedophiles, who seek psychiatric help for their disorder before they commit any crimes.

answers.com agrees with my definition:

http://www.answers.com/pedophile&r=67

Therefore, my analogy remains valid.

[Hippias]

All female members should be given a mandatory probationary period to demonstrate their worthiness to us. The period should be their first 20 posts, by which time it should be clear to us what kind of contributor they'll make. If they start out by posting mind-numbing spam, they should be kicked out of here. If they can demonstrate an ability to think critically about the topics raised, they should be admitted.

[Hunter Wallace]

It's quite obvious that everyone has Starr, Aurora, and Bobina in mind here.

[Metal Gear]

They should be excluded...the three above...the phøra women are idiots...I don't believe ALL women are idiots, but TOO MANY women are...

[Manifest Destiny]

Better to just exclude all of them. Good women (women not interested in flirting with men) pretend to be men on the internet.

[funderbunked]

They should be excluded...the three above...the phøra women are idiots...I don't believe ALL women are idiots, but TOO MANY women are...

Too many phøra pholk-in-good-standing are being let in here, too rapidly, imho.

It's gonna backfire. Especially those who are made Mods. See: the "Hippias"/"Sarcastic" tag-team just yesterday.

Not smart.

[Manifest Destiny]

It's quite obvious that everyone has Starr, Aurora, and Bobina in mind here.I have practically every woman I have ever known in mind here. I can only think of one exception to this, the wife of Nachtwulf from Children of Millennium. She is the only thoughtful woman I have ever known.

[Thomas777]

I'm in favor of excluding women as a matter of policy...as women have no place in the discussion of politics. I asked for an exception to be granted to LeopoldBloom because she is exceptional, and she doesn't even post about directly political matters. However, she is quite well educated and intelligent and is a wealth of knowledge about various scientific points of interest. I would he happy if she were permitted to continue to participate, but I have no desire for any other female to be granted the same dispensation.

[Hunter Wallace]

If women are excluded as a matter of policy, we are going to get tagged with the "gay" label. I don't see this becoming an issue because only a handful of women have ever posted on The phøra.

Edana would be an obvious exception here. Although we have quarreled over the years, she was a good contributor; one of the best that I remember. Carrigan would be another. I remember her more from our telephone conversations than from the forum. I have met Vanessa in real life and have fond memories of that experience.

Starr, BippityBop, and Bobina fit the profile that I have in mind. The only policy we need is common sense: is this person a plus or minus for the forum? Inflexible dogmatism ruined The Torah and VNN Forum. We should always be able to adapt to changing conditions.

What should be avoided at all costs is the accumulation of morons/mainstream/boring individuals.

[Manifest Destiny]

At the very least, women should not be appointed to positions of power. This is partly what lead to the ruin of the old phøra. Carrigan, Edana, and other women became moderators and administrators. This should be avoided at any cost.

[Hunter Wallace]

At the very least, women should not be appointed to positions of power. This is partly what lead to the ruin of the old phøra. Carrigan, Edana, and other women became moderators and administrators. This should be avoided at any cost.

That's true.

[Thomas777]

That's true.

Politics, ethics, philosophy, etc. simply isn't for women. They can't understand and appreciate it, and they can't contribute meaningfully to its discussion. That doesn't make us ''gay'', it just makes us realistic.

I've stumped in defense of LeopoldBloom, so if other exceptions come along we should treat them on a case by case basis. As for Edana, she hasn't posted anything worthwhile since Bush 43's first administration. With respect to Carrigan, I like locking horns with her, but she tends to track mud into any forum she visits...including Brandon ''shit boy'' Orr...so I'd be reluctant to welcome her with open palms.

[Hunter Wallace]

Politics, ethics, philosophy, etc. simply isn't for women. They can't understand and appreciate it, and they can't contribute meaningfully to its discussion. That doesn't make us ''gay'', it just makes us realistic.

It's true that 99% of them are Starr, Bobina, BippityBop clones.

I've stumped in defense of LeopoldBloom, so if other exceptions come along we should treat them on a case by case basis.

I agree.

As for Edana, she hasn't posted anything worthwhile since Bush 43's first administration.

The only positive thing I can say about Edana is that she is intelligent and used to be a good poster years ago. Aside from that, she is a backstabber and an anti-racist.

With respect to Carrigan, I like locking horns with her, but she tends to track mud into any forum she visits...including Brandon ''shit boy'' Orr...so I'd be reluctant to welcome her with open palms.

Obviously.

Like Edana, I will grant that Carrigan is intelligent, but she has other issues. Carrigan also backstabbed me. I haven't forgotten about that either.

[Ymir]

At the very least, women should not be appointed to positions of power. This is partly what lead to the ruin of the old phøra. Carrigan, Edana, and other women became moderators and administrators. This should be avoided at any cost.

This has already been addressed in another thread. It is standard policy.

[Hunter Wallace]

That reminds me: robinder.

[EinsatzKommando]

Women do not have a place here. Like Thomas said, they are not capable of rationally discussing politics, ethics, etc because they cannot understand them.

Women are vain, worldly creatures who need to be put in their place. They cannot grasp higher ideals or profound emotions and feelings, their souls are trapped in handbags and pairs of shoes. Their only goal in life is to indulge in as many worldly pleasures as they can.

I vote we keep the firezone women-free, with a few exceptions. I don't think we're going to have any problems though, women stay away from serious thoughtful forums and tend to join "relaxed" and "fun" forums like the phøra.

Who cares if we get called "gays"? The people who make immature comments like that are usually weak-willed fat unhappy turds like Jake Featherston. Why take offense at the words of inferior specimens?

[Hunter Wallace]

We don't need BippityBop, Starr, sandee, Cheesypie, Bobina, Heavens to Betsy, etc. The occasional exception can be made for the rare intelligent woman like robinder.

[Manifest Destiny]

Women do not have a place here. Like Thomas said, they are not capable of rationally discussing politics, ethics, etc because they cannot understand them.

Women are vain, worldly creatures who need to be put in their place. They cannot grasp higher ideals or profound emotions and feelings, their souls are trapped in handbags and pairs of shoes. Their only goal in life is to indulge in as many worldly pleasures as they can.

I vote we keep the firezone women-free, with a few exceptions. I don't think we're going to have any problems though, women stay away from serious thoughtful forums and tend to join "relaxed" and "fun" forums like the phøra.

Who cares if we get called "gays"? The people who make immature comments like that are usually weak-willed fat unhappy turds like Jake Featherston. Why take offense at the words of inferior specimens?Well said. That is my view on the matter as well.

[Beria]

We don't need BippityBop, Starr, sandee, Cheesypie, Bobina, Heavens to Betsy, etc. The occasional exception can be made for the rare intelligent woman like robinder.

Yes, this is our policy as it stands now. There really needn't be anymore discussion. If an exception comes up - we will decide from there.

[funderbunked]

leopoldbloom. Female.

What say?

[Hunter Wallace]

I don't have a problem with leopoldbloom or Sakura.

[funderbunked]

I don't have a problem with leopoldbloom or Sakura.

I care only 'cos she's in good standing at Torah; and that the "some pigs are more equal than others"-spiel is getting kind of stale.