Similarly, public expression of these attitudes by senior figures in a government do not always reflect the messages being conveyed and communicated by the same government’s foreign ministry. There were several important differences between what Hitler had in mind versus his Foreign Minister Ribbentrop.

There are negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians too.

Russia to release new documents highlighting Polish negotiations with Hitlerite Germany

Head of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service’s Public Relations and Mass Media Bureau, Sergei Ivanov, announced Tuesday that the agency is preparing to publicly release new documents detailing secret negotiations between the Polish bourgeois-nationalist regime of the 1930s and Hitlerite Germany prior to the outbreak of World War II.

It is not the same thing in terms of attitude.

“There is no chance in hell that Poles EVER wanted an alliance with Hitler.”

This is incorrect. The Polish militarists did want such an alliance. See Documents on German Foreign Policy 1918-1945 Series D. Vol. V.

The document in question is No. 126, pp. 167-168. The passage in question is on page 168:

“… 2. I then spoke to M. Beck once more about the policy to be pursued by Poland and Germany towards the Soviet Union and in this connection also spoke about the question of the Greater Ukraine and again proposed Polish-German collaboration in this field.

M. Beck made no secret of the fact that Poland had aspirations directed toward the Soviet Ukraine and a connection with the Black Sea…”

The Polish “colonels”, basically fascists themselves, did not in fact ally with Hitler. But they would have liked to do so.

This is true, but it’s a red herring and only a whim of the author’s preferred rhetoric. Also, it should be noted that Marxist-Leninist historians tend to use Fascist when referring to Hitler’s regime, as distinct from the unique quasi-socialist tendencies that originated in the German National Socialist movement in the 20s under the Strassers and other leftist Nazis.

“But Poles still are an ethnic nation not “co-aryans” with Hitler. The collapse of the state does not remove the ethnic differences between Poles and Germans or make collaboration possible, and the state itself clearly saw Hitler as a threat.”

True; but remember, we’re talking about contemporary politics in 1930s Europe. Bolshevism was seen as a major threat – only later did Nazism become the main enemy. This was particularly true of Poland, who shared a border with the Soviet Union and a tainted history. Therefore, the Polish bourgeois government initially saw Nazi Germany as a potential force willing/interested in defending existing borders against the perceived threat of Soviet “encroachment.”

“The idea that Poles and Germans were in secret conspiracy feeds “Jewish” “conspiracy theory” propaganda that Poles were in fact “in it” with the Germans the whole time rather than co-lateral victims.”

Not really, it identifies the efforts of the Polish bourgeois government to strengthen its position by forming an alliance with Hitlerite Germany against the Soviets. There’s no conspiracy here, this was just one reason why the Soviets refused to deal with the “government in exile” after the German invasion of the USSR.

“Russians “needed” a Stalin to drive them out of the stone age (much like the Middle East needs Saddam Hussein figures as opposed to Islam), but Poles didn’t.”

The Soviets needed a friendly Poland for security reasons – we’ll take friendly to imply a Marxist led government; or a neutral one at worst (a coalition of Communist, social-democratic and bourgeois liberal parties).

The governments of all other countries defeated by Germany did one or both of these things. The Polish government — racist, anticommunist, hyper-nationalist, — in short fascist, as bad as they get — didn’t do either. Rather than fight the Polish government fled into neighboring Rumania.

Nationalism is not Nazism. Fascism is not Nazism either. Marxist-Leninists tend to simplify things and argue that all “Right Wingers” are equal.

When Poland had no government, Poland was no longer a state. (More detailed discussion below)

Up till the beginning of 1939, when Hitler decided to turn against Poland before making war on the USSR, the Polish government was maneuvering to join Nazi Germany in a war on the USSR in order to seize more territory.

But Poles still are an ethnic nation not “co-aryans” with Hitler. The collapse of the state does not remove the ethnic differences between Poles and Germans or make collaboration possible, and the state itself clearly saw Hitler as a threat. The idea that Poles and Germans were in secret conspiracy feeds “Jewish” “conspiracy theory” propaganda that Poles were in fact “in it” with the Germans the whole time rather than co-lateral victims. Though it also feeds Soviet interests, as events such as the Kielce pogrom were initiated by Soviets to help support a Soviet Takeover by de-legitimizing Polish Nationalism as similar to German Nazism.

I still think Stalin did a lot of good with his forced industrialization, “techno-futuristic” and anti-nazi work, but clearly he clashes with Polish (and Ukranian) nationalism. When I praise Stalin, I by no means “fully” support “every move” he made. I’m really judging Stalin to the extent he serves Technocrat interests than to the extent he served “materialist Marxist-Leninism.” Russians “needed” a Stalin to drive them out of the stone age (much like the Middle East needs Saddam Hussein figures as opposed to Islam), but Poles didn’t.

You’re right; but I don’t think the article even addresses the question of the Polish nation.

“Even if Poles were “racist and hypernationalist” (which is a good thing”

I don’t know if you could really qualify 1930s Poland as “racist,” but the nationalist bourgeoisie in Poland was a constant source of problems, and it was a shame that the Soviets were unable to take Poland once and for all in 1920 (no thanks to Trotsky, Tukhachevsky and Yegorov).

That would be a long post. Maybe the Soviet Invasion was less blatant than historians say or less of an invasion. There were individual statements that I disagreed with. I’ll quote them if I have the time and will in the future.

The racial antagonisms between Poles and Germans were obvious. Hell would have had a better chance of freezing over.

I’m all for out of the box thinking but think this article is solely a reflection of the views of the poster who posted it.

It is just a pragmatic agreement. But it is not mean you see the partner as your “kin.”

Furthermore, the Polish people exist as a nation always, even if the State does not exist to represent it.